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Changes to CONGU Handicap system from Jan 2018 Options
#1 Posted : Monday, January 29, 2018 10:57:16 AM
Handicap: 27
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 7
I stumbled across an article today relating to changes in the CONGU handicap system, which in essence is removing the upper limit of 28 for men and 36 and for women to a maximum of 54 for all players; this change also retires club and disability handicaps. The change is effective from January 2018. 
 

These changes are being made to enable a new world handicap system which proposes to unify 6 world handicap systems into one. More information can be found here:
  • https://www.englandgolf.org/page.aspx?sitesectionid=633
  • https://www.englandgolf.org/page.aspx?sitesectionid=563&sitesectiontitle=Handicapping
  • https://www.englandgolf.org/page.aspx?sitesectionid=2569&search=
  •  
  • Ian, will this mean changes to our handicap system or will it remain the same? I would also be interested to hear the thought of other TSG members. Gary
#2 Posted : Monday, January 29, 2018 5:44:40 PM
Handicap: 0
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 572
Hi Gary,

Yes, this is an intertesing change and one that brings the UK in line with all other European countries, who have been using these thresholds for some time.

We would be happy to change the upper limits of the handicaps if everyone is in agreement (assuming the developers can work their magic; it should be a fairly easy code change).....

Maximum handicap changed to 54.0. The biggest news is that as of January 1, a new Category 5 for Men and Category 6 for both Men and Women has been introduced, meaning that there will now be a maximum competition handicap of 54 for all golfers (replacing the old competition handicaps of 28 for men and 36 for women).5 Jan 2018


Let the debate begin....



The TSG Team
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#3 Posted : Monday, January 29, 2018 6:20:57 PM
Handicap: 13
Pro Member

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 20
Apart from Cranham and Epping, if you're off 54 you should not be allowed anywhere near a golf course at certain times... Just putting that out there....
#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 30, 2018 12:29:58 AM
Handicap: 27
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 7
  • I think this raises bigger questions than merely changing the handicap system, some thoughts below:
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  •  
  • Handicap governance: If we do not implement the new changes which are mandatory for golf clubs, what governance will our handicap system be using? I appreciate we don't use a CONGU handicap system on the site, but my guess is the logic is informed by this system (I may be wrong here).
  •  
  • Handicap Certificates: Will clubs still accept our handicap certificates?
  •  
  • 2 handicaps? Some TSG members belong to a golf club, these changes will be implemented in their clubs, for those who play above 28 or 36 handicap, will they need to hold two separate handicaps. One for the club and one for TSG? 
  •  
  •  
  • New TSG Members: What will happen if new members want to join TSG with one of the new high handicaps, will they be turned away or told they have to adopt a lower handicap?
  •  
  • Competitions - of new system implemented
  •         Should competitions be played off full or reduced handicaps?
  •         Should there be different handicap categories and prizes for the same competition?
  •  
  • World Golf Handicap System: The new system will be introduced in the near future, probably within the next 2 years, will we choose to adopt this system?
  •  
  • I understand that these changes will be unpopular to some and welcome by others. I can imagine a situation where a low handicap player could be lose an important match or competition to a high handicap player, this could be demoralising and turn a person away from competitions or golf altogether.
  •  
  • I personally don't want my handicap to go up and will be doing my best this year to get it down. Our game is one of the few games that was set up to allow people of differing abilities to compete with each other, few sports offer this option.
  •  
  • I'm uncomfortable with not implementing the new system, as I wonder if it is a slippery slope. What happens when we don't like a new rule that was introduced, do we ignore it or embrace it? If we choose to ignore it then what game are we playing and by whose rules?
  •  
  • All of the above has implications for TSG, and the decision will need to be made with this and other information/comments in mnd, which is why I don't think its a simple yes or no question.
 
#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 30, 2018 6:30:10 AM
Handicap: 18
Bedfordshire
Pro Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 117
Originally it was mooted that these higher handicaps would be given for use on the club you were a member at. Should you play elsewhere maximum was going to be 28/36.

In other areas of the world, higher handicaps work alongside the slope system, not just as a standalone.

Manipulation of handicaps is something that raises it's ugly head occasionally, and many of us 'think' we know of instances - this could well exacerbate those thoughts.

I'm sure I'll add some more thoughts soon, but I see this causing problems if implemented - it only take 1 person to make a mockery of something.

jb

 
#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 30, 2018 3:57:23 PM
Handicap: 18
Bedfordshire
Pro Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 117
Had further thoughts this morning:

1) Ian as promoter of the 4 annual events is allowed to stipulate the maximum handicap allowable for each of the comps for both Ladies and Gents
2) YOU as a promoter when you post a game are entitled to stipulate max handicaps (it's already built in!)
3) Could be a problem with exceptionally high scores on a monthly leaderboard, but should only ever be a one off.

jb

#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 30, 2018 4:39:45 PM
Handicap: 10
essex
Pro Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 35
 I have always thought that the true game of game is with no H/C this is  your  score, this   is the true game, now the problem with h/c adjusted scores is on some days your h/c  is wrong on that day, I do this myself some times, 45 points was my score a week or so back , this proves that on that day my h/c was to high,  but for so many other days its about right,  now if you increase the h/c level, and then someone has a good day you could have scores of 60 points!!!!     so its bad enough now  , no need to make it worse , then there is the point of slow play, how long would it take for a 4 ball all 54h/c  to play,  and would you want to be behind them!!!   so i think its not as inportant what your h/c is, as can you play a game in 4 hours or less, if you can then that is ok,  but i think at that level of skill they could not be expected to play in 4 hours, so maybe clubs could have times say after 12 for very high h/c to go out,  but if i go back to when i started golf . i played on a par3 until  my golf inproved, only then did i start to pay on a full size coarse,   so go back in time and many clubs would not let you play if your h/c was to high, so maybe thats the way to go again if indeed you had people turning up to play with a 54 h/c, after all how bad would you have to be to get a 54h/c in the first place, its golf  but not as we know it.
#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:46:44 PM
Handicap: 27
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 7
Playing 3/4 handicaps could be an answer for competitions, someone playing off of 54 would therefore be playing off approx. 40-41, if your off 18 you would be playing of 14; 13-14 point reduction for a 54 handicap and 4 for a 18 handicap. If the monthly leaderboard also used 3/4 handicap it would go some way to reducing potential scores of 60+. I think the likelihood of seeing a 54 handicap this year is unlikely for existing members as it would take a large number of games for your handicap to increase to 54 if you go up by 0.1 above your buffer zone. However if new members join it's possible that they could be joining with a new higher handicap this year.
#9 Posted : Friday, February 2, 2018 5:48:59 PM
Handicap: 27
Middlesex
Pro Member

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 421
 I recommend reading a very interesting article on these changes in the ENGLAND GOLF wesbsite.

It seems to make sense and explain that it is up to the Club etc.....

Well worth a read

Brigitte
"Vive le TSG"





 
#10 Posted : Friday, February 2, 2018 6:14:43 PM
Handicap: 18
Bedfordshire
Pro Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 117
Yes Brigitte, up to the golf club and up to the promoter - which is you when you post a game. Really this is a moot point as mostly there is not going to be a problem as anyone starting out with an incredibly high handicap is not going to want to play competitively for fear of making a fool of themselves. And anyone with a 'mickey mouse' handicap, if you get my drift, will very soon be caught out.

Anyone with a high handicap is going to want to reduce it pretty quickly, or look at showing a lower one to 'fit in'.

jb

 
#11 Posted : Monday, February 12, 2018 2:00:13 PM
Handicap: 0
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 572
 

OK, looks like this thread has run its course.....

In short, JB is perfectly correct when he says we can set our own thresholds for competitions and having discussed this with quite a few Golf Pro's over the last few weeks, it seems many people are questioning the validity of a man playing off 54 let alone 45 (!). If not as it will effect the ever grwoing slow play issue....

We are not in any breach on CONGU (as they don't recognise us) and you are free to set your own 'local rules anyway.

However, in the interest of equality (one of our key site policies), we have concluded that both men and women should be at least allowed the SAME handicap limits or we are in danger of being hoisted by our our petard - e.g. 36.

How would TSGers feel about this being our limit? (once the developers have tweaked this for us).

Of course, TSGers would still be required to have entered in three cards prior to any official TSG comps. and x10 cards to qualify for the monthly leaderboard.

#discuss



Ian & The TSG Team

 

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#12 Posted : Monday, February 12, 2018 5:21:02 PM
Handicap: 27
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 7
 Ian, maybe it’s worth running a voting poll for the increase in handicap for TSG members with a set deadline? This would allow anonymous voting and views from people who may not feel comfortable discussing the issue in this forum.

Those who are happy to discuss can still do so via this thread.

 
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