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Roger Akerman
Handicap: 13
East Sussex
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 118
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Would just like your views on the following: : when out playing in a society or with a large group ( lets say there is 6 x 4 balls in your group) should you let other players through your Society or Group.
The reason for asking is two fold, one what is the etiquette and 2 last week when following a society they refused to let anyone through, thus spent 51/2 hours to play a round behind them.
Aterwards I spoke to the organiser about it his, comment was we are a society so we have priority on the course and don't have to let you through. I pointed out that the fact that his last playing group had lost two holes to the group in front of them, I said surely it was common courtesy to let us through. his reply was tough!!!.
As I run a society It got me thinking about what we do so would like your views
Roger
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'JB' John Barbe...
Handicap: 15
Bedfordshire
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
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All depends on if you are holding someone up. If you drop a hole, yes let them through, if not, no. I played at the weekend and was held up for 12 holes, but so were the groups (at least 7) in front.
Just because you are up the backs of the group in front, you can only expect to be let through if there is a gap - and of course, if they are decent people.
If there was a hold up by your first 4 ball, it would be etiquette for them to let the next ones through etc. etc....
The way I look at it is treat people the way you want to be treated.
jb
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Ian Mullins
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 378
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Hi Roger,
I agree with JB on this. Its really about good manners, if you are holding them up and they have been informed they will have to play through 4 or 5 more groups, then its their call if they want to go through.
I would not refuse to let them thorugh and I dont believe a 'Society' has any rights over anyone else, we are all equal.
Thats my two- penneth.
:-)
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Judy Lilley
Handicap: 20
Kent
Pro Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 244
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It's all about common sense - make the invitation, then you are engaging with them and communicating what is going on, then they can accept or decline. The rule absolutely is to always keep up with those in front and if not, then invite the group behind you to go through - if you are holding them up. Before going out, the Pro Shop should always know what is going on, so as to guide the membership, players, societies etc. what is going on in order to police the course. The Pro Shop for instance could have advised what was going on, thus any faster groups could make the decision of going ahead and playing, or just going with the flow, knowing what is going on, thus accepting. If you don't know what is going on, you get the hump and you get frustrated and it affects your mood and your game. So always make the connection and the world will be a happier smiling place.
Message to all golfers. The golfing world is a perfect smiling place, where bunkers are always raked, divots are always replaced, everyone is always polite and friendly to each other.
Now remember the Pink Floyd album cover Animals.
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Andy C
Handicap: 16
Essex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 95
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I don't personally know the rule but my view on this is that the socitey should get priotrity on the course. They would have booked meals ect and its not fair that the first group out has to wait an extra hour for the last group to come in because they have played a number of other groups through, also it would not be nice for the last group to come back to eat alone.
Everytime ive booked a tee time that is going to be behind a socitey the pro shop as always informed me, so this would then be my choice to play or not...
Having said i do feel soicety organisers needed to plan groups better, ive never understoon why they feel its correct to put all the 28 handicap players in one or two groups at the end, mix the groups not only will this help improve a golfer it will also speed the pace of play.
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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Hi all interesting to read this as most admit to not knowing the rules , there is a rule for this ,
section 1 etiquette behaviour on the course
pace of play, It is a groups reponisiblity to keep up with the group in front, if it losses a hole and is delaying the group behind , then it should invite the group behind to play through,
Irrespective of the number of the players in that group, and in a group were they have not lossed a hole but it is clear that they are holding up players behind, again they should be let through.
priority on the course is determined by a groups pace of play and not any other reason.
finally nobody should take more than 4 hours to play a game of golf, and if you do you can be disqualifyed under rule 33~7
THE point is soicitys or any one playing golf should read the rules, keep up, play by the rules, which includes this one, Also organisers should state to there players before going out, we have booked tee times there are other players out there we have not payed for the hole day!!!
If a group had to pay extra for all the tee times they had used up after 4 hours then the extra cost would make them play quicker, also in groups there are players that should just not be on a golf course , if you cant play, please dont.
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'JB' John Barbe...
Handicap: 15
Bedfordshire
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
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This problem has happened mainly because of the Tour professionals inability to play at a decent pace. Amatuer golfers now seem to think that because the Pro's take 5 hours, they can.
At the end of the day you should treat the other players on the course the way you would like to be treated.
No one has the right to say that because they are in a society, they will not let others through because it will break up their group. If there is a gap infront of your group you have only two choices, speed up and catch those in front or let those behind you through - if you don't do one of these things, I'd suggest you should not be playing 'social golf'.
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Steve Rawlinson
Handicap: 36
North London
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 91
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Roger Ireland wrote: finally nobody should take more than 4 hours to play a game of golf, and if you do you can be disqualifyed under rule 33~7
No, you can't. 33-7 covers disqualification in "exceptional individual cases" for "serious breaches of etiquette". Playing a round of golf in just over 4 hours is hardly serious or exceptional.
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Judy Lilley
Handicap: 20
Kent
Pro Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 244
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The Golfer's Dictionary of "should" and "if" and "supposed to" comes in to discusion big time.
If everyone followed the rule, then there would never be any problem.
Back to the real world..........which is full of diversity and it is usually the small numbers who breach, who spoil it for others.
When there are a large number of players, don't faff:
- as you approach the green, look for the next tee and place your clubs nearby;
- don't faff;
- if you are given a putt - take it!!!!
- don't faff;
- save edge of the hole tap ins for £1,000 bets for when you own your own golf club and can play it alone.
- don't faff;
- update your scorecard after you have cleared the green, at the next tee, before you hit your tee shot.
- and most important - enjoy your round!
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Ian Mullins
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 378
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Alas Roger (Ireland), I don't think this a one you can turn to the rule book on.... its just common sense, surely.
And I won't take the bait regards playing in under 4 hours, it may well be like that on the courses of Portugal, whereby there is rarely anyone on the course...
This is about a wet and windy day in Blighty on a sat... under 4 hrs - you're avin' a laugh!
:-)
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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Ian, i love it when it gets going.
About the rules, if its in the book, page 19 and 21 then they should be used the same as all the other ones, a number of plays have never read them let alone play by them.
I think my 4 hours comment was taken out of contexted.
This is the time (max) you should be playing in, its when people do not thats when the trouble starts, as for portugal, you could not be more wrong.
The average time here is about 4.5 hours but it can be as long as 5 to 6 hours, why, because people are not playing by the rules.
At the start of the day in our group 12 to 20 players, it takes 3.5 to 4 hours at most, but the players behind it gets longer and longer, we are finished having a drink and chat as you do, and you see groups finishing and gaps start to open up, some loss up to 3 holes so all the players behind them they are now into 5 hours and plus.
About rule 33_ 7 this would only apply to a club player for serious breach of the rule applied by the committee slow play is included in this, i was not talking about a saturday player taking about 4 hours but one that keeps not playing by the rules, and as on saturdays there is nobody to enforce the rules, so this will not happen.
It is also true that most clubs just take your money and let you get on with it even if slow players hold others up, hense we all get used to slow play , even expect it as i do, on a saturday but its not right.
This started off about a round of 5.5 hours and is this right, should slow player stand a side and let faster ones go thro, well the rules say yes ,
So am i having a laugh!!!! no i think not, i am just a player who likes to play by the rules and wish others would do the same one other thing slow play here, its not so bad,, why its 30c sunny and its not like i have something pressing to do after my game, but playing in the wind rain and a muddy field in the uk well thats another thing, all the more reason to play faster, so over to anyone with more to say on this
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Steve 'The Powe...
Handicap: 21
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 288
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All in all, common sense should prevail... if you keep up with the group infront then allowing others to play through wouldn't be sensible.
So saying there have been occasions when a club - not a milion miles away from me, allowed us onto the course just in front of a Club ladies compeitiion 2-ball... We could see that they were being held up by our 4-balls (all playing reasonably quickly) and we invited them through.
The act was much appreciated by the ladies - and it didn't take but a minute or so to let them get on with it. No-one was following them so the rest of the course was empty and we had a pleasant stroll around (in under 4 hours).
On a separate occasion - at a different (but popular venue) we had 5 social golfers - so set out as a 2 and a 3. Teeing off was the two ball we quite quickly caught up with a ladies two-ball - they were a little slow but instead of complaining and fretting - we caught up with them and asked to join them. They agreed and we all had a pleasant stress-free round of golf.
Keep up with the group in front, there can be lots of benefits... and to coin a popular phrase - don't faff... be ready to play, and it is possible to play much faster...
Lots of tips and hits to be had - to play faster without needing to play quicker....
Question for the forum - What is the easiest way to save about 20 minutes in every round, regardless of ability ?
There may be a prize for the best and closest guess...
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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just finished a game at vila sol and just short of 5 hours, i had a latter tee time, same old problems, but as i have said before its warm and sunny!!!!!
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Ian Mullins
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 378
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Steve,
I do like a quiz.... in my humble opinion, I reckon most four-balls could save at least 20 mins by be ready on the tee and ready to putt when its their turn.
I witnessed recently someone walk 40 yards to chip a ball, 40 yards back to collect the putter, 40 yards back to Putt and then 40 yards back to the bag, which was the other side of the green, when the path to the next tee was 40 yards back again!!
Roger , rules are there to be broken.....oh and were having a mini heatwave here - its going to be 20 degrees tomorrow - wahoo!
:-)
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Steve 'The Powe...
Handicap: 21
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 288
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Good effort Ian, that is one way of saving lots of time - I have something much simpler in mind (but adhere to 'being ready to go when it is my turn' as much as possible... as well)...
What I do is very obvious... needing no skill at all...
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Steve 'The Powe...
Handicap: 21
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 288
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Following on from the Epping bandits at Ilford day, it was suggested that 'always have two balls available' would be a way to save time...
I agree Colin S always have a spare ball in your pocket for when you need to play that provisional..
Good suggestion but not what I had in mind at the time... and only useful if you tend to lose balls (which is sort of skill-related)...
Keep going though... it's not even making sure that trolley and bags are positioned around the greens on the path to the next tee...
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Steve Hunt
Handicap: 16
uk
Pro Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 44
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My guess is taking off head covers before the game, then only replacing when game is finished
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Steve 'The Powe...
Handicap: 21
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 288
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Steve Hunt - well done - I believe it saves me up to 2 minutes per hole... (usually just the cover for the driver)
It seems but a moments work to take off the head cover play the shot then replace the head cover, but in the meantime the eyes have had to focus on close up and it is easy to lose the line on the ball you have just hit...
I did watch others - some time ago - and recorded the time it took to remove and replace a headcover - (on average 35 seconds to replace)...
There are more wasys to save a few moments...
- Position of the trolley/bag/buggy for example - close enough to avoid having to walk back and forward too much...
- Also position the trolley, bag.buggy in between the green and the next tee... (where possible)
- Play your own approach shot before helping others to locate missing balls...
- Arrive at your ball with the club you are going to use (in hand)
- Stop trying when you can no longer score (especially if there are groups close behind)
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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Hi Steve, sounds like a good idea but you are forgetting you may be doing this when other player are taking there shot, in which case , no time is saved. even if you were the first to play you would only save time in the removal of the cover that is only if you were standing around waiting to play without getting ready, most poeple have removed the head cover before walking on to the tee, if it was true in a 4 ball if all did this then you would be 80 mins quicker for a round, i do take your point there are players that muck about on the tee but they are slow players, all the others things that has been said to speed up play are true, and i wish the slow players would take note, but when you play with a slow player, the first thing that they will say is , i am not a slow player!!!!!!!! how many players do you know who say , its my fault we were slow because i am a slow player. none in fact they also complain its been so slow!!!!! when it was them that caused the delay. Try as you will to speed things up until people want to speed up they never will. The only thing i do is try to play at the speed of the players ahead so not to be waiting to long to play each shot, the only trouble with this is that then they never think to let you thro.
I think a good idea is to always record how long a round took, then after talk about how long it took and why or who caused the slow play, mind you this could lead to fighting on the 19th !!!!!
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Judy Lilley
Handicap: 20
Kent
Pro Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 244
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It doesn't take Mr. Hunt long to remove head covers as one bin liner fits over the lot very nicely thank you!
Removing head covers can be done whilst walking to your next shot.......
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Ian Mullins
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 378
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Right, here's my top five tips for speeding up the game....
1 - Be ready on the tee when it's your turn to go
2 - Decide on the club as you approach your ball (not when you arrive at it)
3 - Place your bag at the exit of the green leadng to the next tee
4 - Be ready to Putt, when its your turn
5 - Mark you card while your opponents are teeing off on the next hole NOT on the green
I reckon in a four-ball this will save 30 mins a round..... assuming the group in front are doing the same of course!!
Do I win a prized Mr.Slater?
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Steve 'The Powe...
Handicap: 21
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 288
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Quite right that you can remove the head cover as you approach your ball - if you already know what club you plan to use (I will often decide the next club as soon as I'm on the move from a previous shot and will have that club in hand way before I get to the ball). Also taking the time to walk behind the line of intended shot to form the 'mental picture' of what I would be trying to achieve).
Also by lining up my trolley along the line of intended shot - to the right of my ball (as I am right-handed) it acts as an alignment aid (subliminally of course). With it close, it is a simple matter to return the club to the bag and select the next club before moving off..
All of Ian's tips are of course relevant and if we all do it then we can save 30 minutes a round, stuff like this is all detailed in the Golfing Etiquette booklet that I was given some years ago...
Here's a thought though... if one of the group 'loses a ball' - I would suggest that others where possible play their own balls first before helping to look for the errant ball... always assumes that the other group members can see their own balls before and after their shots... It is possible to save a lot of time and does make sense to me...
For me the best advice I would give - be aware of your surroundings and notice when you are holding up play...put yourself on the clock 'but don't rush, stick with routine (less prone to losing balls this way).
In most situaitons if there is sapce in front of you and the group behind are close, it is Ok to invite them to play through, but if there's no place to go then there's no real value for them to play through...
For those artists amongst us, hold your pose until the ball has bounced twice - you get a better view on where it will end up (and it does add distance - but that is a skill as much as an art form)...
This is where I believe I save myself time (or stress) by leaving the driver head cover off, hold the pose until I see where the ball will or is likely to be then I don't ned to change to near focus and hence tend to find balls more easily (I'm old now and I tend to play only the distance I can see these days)...
If we all take Ian's advice we can expect shorter rounds of golf (timewise) and can also restul in a reduced-stress situaiton (for some)...
- Be ready on the tee when it's your turn to go
- Decide on the club as you approach your ball (not when you arrive at it)
- Place your bag at the exit of the green leadng to the next tee
- Be ready to Putt, when its your turn
- Mark you card while your opponents are teeing off on the next hole NOT on the green
- Have a second ball in your pocket - just in case you need to play a provisional)
- Have ball marker, pencil and divot repairer in pocket
- Take out the club you have decided to use for your next shot before you arrive at your ball
- Position your trolley/bag/buggy close to where you will be playing the ball from (wherever possible)
- If you can't score on a hole (stableford) then be prepared to pick up and move on..
- Headcover off the driver
- Play your own ball - if possible - before helping group members look for a missing ball..
- be aware of you position and situaiton, if there's no space in front of you - there's not much point in letting others through (Murphy's Law will apply and they will hold you up)
- Consider - allowing players off the green to 'come on' even if they are closer to the pin (reducing the need to handle the flag more than once...)
Sure to be more useful tips from others...prize will be the reward of fewer hold-ups OK - I do have a rather nice malt Whiskey to donate.
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Howard (The Ass...
Handicap: 25
London
Pro Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 52
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My tip would be.....play with Steve and a nip of Malt Whiskey
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Brigitte Lockwo...
Handicap: 30
Middlesex
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 574
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My tip would be get a caddie. He/she would take care of your bag, select the correct club for the shot, clean your ball, remove/replace the head covers and more importantly for us "nomad Golfers" will know the challenges of the course being played........ 
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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Did anyone see langer playing last night?
He cannot have read anything about slow play on this forum or care about slow play!!!!
O n the tee as his playing partners were playing there shots he just stands back, then when it was his turn he then just stands there talking to his caddie about how to play his shot talk , talk , talk, then out comes the driver , take the head cover off, then maybe more talk before he is read to play his shot!!!!!!!
Its a par 4 he played a driver as did the other players he must have known what he was going to do, but that is the way he does it!!!!!
Like all slow players he does things his way, im glad he did not win, when people watch him with such bad etiqutte, and nothing is done, people think this is the way to play, or its ok to take so long.
The commentator did say, after all that, and he then he takes the driver!!!
At least they said something but i think they are not allowed to say to much in the usa , i have heared it said on uk tv, he is taking to long over this etc etc but i think they cant say to much in the states.
Anyway my point is slow play is at the top of the game right down to the 28 h/c level
There has been much written here about slow and how to speed things up, but the problem remains because the ones that need to change will not, how does it go, ...... As seen on tv.
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'JB' John Barbe...
Handicap: 15
Bedfordshire
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
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Must say Roger, people like Bernhard Langar are part of the problem - until the tours get to grips with slow play, many amatuers will say that if the Pro's play that way, why shouldn't I.
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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We had early tee time today 4 ball, 3 hours and 25mins no rush , but it shows you dont have to take 4 hours plus to play golf and it is saturday , it just needs 4 plays who can play
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'JB' John Barbe...
Handicap: 15
Bedfordshire
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
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All well and good if the players with you are willing to play to a reasonable speed, but there is usually a group in front that think because the tour play 5 hour plus rounds they can. The Tour need to start penalising the pro's so that the game speeds up on TV, then the courses need to have their Rangers sort out the players on their courses.
And I played in the month's worth of rain this morning and did a 3 hour 30 round - marvelous what happens when the slow coaches stay at home.
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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Hi All, still in portugal, but a lot seem to have gone home or doing others things, so this saturday there was only 5 , so a 2 ball ,and a 3 ball, the course was clear so off we go.
the 2 ball went first, how long? 2hr 40 mins, we were following behind not rushing, nice day , chat chat etc, we took 3hr 05 mins now that is how it should be, the day before following a 4 ball 4hr 30 mins mind you we finished so early i had to find something to do with the rest of the day!!!!
Will be home shortly looking forward to playing different courses again, it will make a change
Apart from one good game i am finding it hard to play well , so i need a change, i think.
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