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'JB' John Barbe...
Handicap: 15
Bedfordshire
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
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Not trying to start an arguement, just looking for the views of others - here goes then......
Had some thoughts on handicaps of late, especially in view of a couple of comments from people who don't actually enter cards for one reason or another. (Both on the likes of TSG and on the 'official' WHS handicap from England Golf - surely someone from there keeps their eye on all golfing publications!)
First one -
He is a member of a club and has a very high handicap, as it is only a short time since he joined the club and is a true 'newbie'. He can hit a ball a country mile, but is (as most of us) not always accurate, and no doubt, like the rest of us will tend to get impatient and this shows on preceding shots. The problem is that he likes to play with a couple of groups in 'friendly golf games' and never enters general play cards for them. Then he will come and join a group who run comps. He tries to come out with them and play as a non competitor, but has now taken umbridge at the fact of beong told that he needs to join these comps properly and enter cards into the system. He thinks that other players are picking on him because he has a high handicap. No, they are just upset that he picks and chooses when he enters cards for handicapping, the excuse being that should he have a 'bad round' it could make his handicap go up.
Second one -
Not a member of a club, occaisionally puts a card into an online system, but generally 'does it on his phone' ie, doesn't really bother and plays off what he thinks is right. Probably has the same sort of attitude to handicapping as the player above.
The point is that both of these players are only fooling themselves, as somewhere down the line they are actually (providing they keep playing) going to need a proper handicap to be allowed to play a real competition (even if it is playing with a society based in a club). They are not going to be best pleased when the organiser says, either, 'Sorry but you cannot play for the main prize, as you have no legit handicap' or 'sorry mate, no handicap certificate, no play' (handicap certs are now all online so no get out!).
Proper handicaps are in general all the reputable online ones run in the same way as TSG, or of course the WHS (which, whatever England golf say, is not truly worldwide!) EG handicap.
Any thoughts?
jb
........and don't get me started on people who store up their cards and put in half a dozen or more at a time............!
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Steve Hunt
Handicap: 16
uk
Pro Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 44
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I cant get to excited about hc's anymore, I tend to put about 50 pecent of my cards in, i find if im having a bad round i tend to stop scoring and chuck card away and just try and enjoy the game, so most of my scoring cards are 30 pts or above as any worse are already in bin.
I dont really care what other people are playing off, its not going to change my life if I win a match or trophy, i will still be at work next day.
If you are playing in Club comps i can appreciate that you expect everyone to be playing by same rules but not sure that me playing off 18 in a TSG comp instead of say 22 if i put all my crap cards in is going to hurt anyone.
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John Gibbons
Handicap: 34
Essex
Pro Member
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Gaps between entered cards could be construed as being Good rounds, that a player may want to conceal, in order to keep a high handicap prior entering competitions. A committee, may refuse entry to a competition due to this or make a note of a player, who out performs their handicap in a competition. Let's not beat about the bush. Not all golf players, play by the rules.
My advice is to enter all your cards unless you have a particularily poor round due to health issues during a round.
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Ian Mullins
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 378
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I really just don't get it....
What is the big issue, you go and play golf, you record your scores, you submit your scores to a Website, App, Spreadsheet, whatever is your preference. It takes 2 mins.
Alas, some people just are either lazy or don’t like being transparent or like to kick against the rules OR it's just plain vanity (they want people to think they are better golfers than they are?!).
OR, maybe they actually think they are better than they are.
Alas, if you are playing frequently (or not frequently) but not putting in scores, you are just bringing suspicion on yourself.
But like I said, I just don't get it!
(Rolling Eyes Emoji!)
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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yes this is a old story, there is much that can be said, but what ever you do someone else will think its wrong, i have always submited my cards on the tsg its over 1600, and my h/c is 8.8 , this is all cards good and bad so is my h/c correct? i think so, because as a member of vila sol portugal my h/c there is 8.9 more or less the same, but in portugal not all my game are used for h/c, only these when playing a comp, so my point is for me my h/c is the same for all cards, or for just some, so i wonder could this be the same for everyone, if you have a world h/c at a club, is yours the same as with the tsg?
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Jonathan Knowle...
Handicap: 4
Kent
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
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Ian Mullins wrote:
I really just don't get it....
What is the big issue, you go and play golf, you record your scores, you submit your scores to a Website, App, Spreadsheet, whatever is your preference. It takes 2 mins.
Alas, some people just are either lazy or don’t like being transparent or like to kick against the rules OR it's just plain vanity (they want people to think they are better golfers than they are?!).
OR, maybe they actually think they are better than they are.
Alas, if you are playing frequently (or not frequently) but not putting in scores, you are just bringing suspicion on yourself.
But like I said, I just don't get it!
(Rolling Eyes Emoji!)
You shamed me into putting 22 cards in, wait till my handicap reaches double digits then there will be trouble.😀😀.
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Ian Mullins
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 378
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Oh yes Jon, the TSG 'thought police' can be a very disruptive influence!
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Lawrence Liao
Handicap: 32
Surrey
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Quote the postscript of jb's 21 Aug message:
"
Any thoughts?
jb
........and don't get me started on people who store up their cards and put in half a dozen or more at a time............!
"
I hope I can be excused as exceptional for doing exactly that for once. Wanting to resume regular golf three months ago, I decided to get my handicap first by playing 20 rounds in a few concentrated weeks. I recorded the scores in a spreadsheet with handicap calculation which gave me 32.4. Joint TSG as a pro a few weeks ago and immediately posted all the scores on the site which gives me a handlcap of 32.0. I have since added a couple of 'worse' rounds and expectedly observed that the handicap is unchanged.
For the discrepancy between 32.4 and 32.0, my closer look finds that the par values and stroke indices shown on TSG system of the courses I played do not match my score cards. I'll send the request to TSG site for reviewing the course details next time I post my card.
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TheSocialGolfer
Handicap: 36
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 782
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Hi Lawrence,
I don’t think the comment above applies to you.
In fact, you are to be commended for going to the trouble of adding all you previous cards.
As for discrepancies on scorecards, unfortunately it is an mammoth task to keep 20K+ golf courses' information up to date, multiplied by 3 tees (sometimes 4) and that 80K+ data points to maintain.
AND, it may be the scorecards have been updated on our system, compared to the when you played the course.
That said, we endeavour to update most cards within 24 hours of it being brought to our attention, so hopefully that helps.
We look forward to meeting you Sunday, whereby we'll be happy to answer any more questions you may have.
:)
Ps Note - TSG Handicaps allow for international cards to be entered unlike EG or iGolf. Hence why some members see a discrepancy when they join. However, h'caps will only ever match rival websites/apps if they have both been fed with identical data.
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'JB' John Barbe...
Handicap: 15
Bedfordshire
Pro Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 275
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Hi Lawrence
No, you are not one of those that 'you don't want to get me started with'. Nice to see you trying to get a handicap ASAP. From now on just make sure you bang those cards in as soon as you can after playing - whether they be good, bad or indifferent, don't get into the trap of being afraid to see your handicap rise - you should only rarely get a score of 36 points or above. And make sure you putt out as one day in a match, you will be called out with an 18 inch putt that could cost you the game!
jb
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Roger Ireland
Handicap: 9
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 68
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Hi John, long time no see, on reading your comment at you should only rarely score 36 or over, may have been correct years ago, but today i am not so sure, why? well if you take your scores, in the last 20 games you have scored 36 or over 5 times, if you look at mine, last 20, i have scored 36 or over 13 times
I think this shows under the worldH/C maybe your h/c is higher, and its clear there are different types of golfers which is why its hard to say what you can expect to score , anyway some thing else to think about but one thing is clear golfers are all very different and there scores reflex this if i had more time i would look at other players we know to see how they score, maybe see you for a game one day roger
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Lawrence Liao
Handicap: 32
Surrey
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Hi John and Roger,
My thoughts on how often a player may see scores 36 or over are as follows.
As the World H/C system uses the best 8 out of the latest 20 rounds for calculation, 8/20=40% is a good indicator for how often one may see scores of 36 or over, especially if a round scored 36 is counted as a half.
For the latest 20 of my cards, I have 8 above 36, 1 equal, and 11 below, therefore I get 8.5/20=42.5%, very close to 40%, suggesting my handicap has been relatively stable.
For Roger's latest 20 rounds that I had a look at, the figures are 12-1-7, giving 62.5%, significantly over 40%. It strongly suggests Roger's handicap has been trending better through the last 20 rounds, congratulations!
Lawrence
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Paul Houghton
Handicap: 16
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 136
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This on going debate is all over the golf world. There does seem to be division split down the middle of those who want to reduce their handicap, and those that want save a couple of shots extra, which will put them in the frame. WHS and TSG has given the golfer the power to control their playing handicap, those that want the systems to work have the honesty to submitt their scores everytime they play. Others feel that this could end up being a punishment, club members seem to be the worst? You cannot have it both way's, if you want to paticipate in medals, comps etc you must submitt regular cards. The above systems do rely on integraty, I applaud those that submitt their scores good or bad, its the only way these systems work. Their will always be bandits at Charity days etc but lets keep them out of TSG events or at least playing for guest trophy's, in clubs (like my own) the members need to stand together and call out those that maniputate the system...as they are cheats!
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TSG
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