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Hi everyone,
Ball comes to rest close to a staked tree in the rough. Could someone pls tell me the correct thing to do in this situation. Would relief that results in playing from the fairway be alowed without a penalty stroke? What rules apply?
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Hi Olu. Assuming the club has a local rule allowing you to take relief from staked trees you should find the nearest point of relief and take a free drop within one club length, not nearer the hole. If the ball rolls outside the one club length you re-drop. If it does it a second time you place it where it landed on the second drop. Bear in mind that it is the nearest point of relief not the nicest. The nearest point of relief might be in the middle of a bush (as happened to Ross Fisher in the recent WGC matchplay - this was actually for an immovable obstruction but the same principle applies). You'd then have to hit it out of the bush (as Fisher did) or take an unplayable with a 1 stroke penalty. You cannot not take the relief from the tree as its a local rule). ETA: the nearest point of relief is one that permits you to take your stance with the club with which you intend to hit the shot such that your swing and intended line of play are uninhibited by the obstruction from which you are taking relief. -- 30/03/2009 15:21:14: post edited by Colin Stevens.
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Joined: Mar 2010
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Hi Colin, I thought you'd got this one wrong so I checked and, you are of course correct... So, another one for you - I drive off and think it's gone in the trees, I play a provisional ball (so declared) and whack it straight down the middle of the fairway. I get up to about where the first ball went into the trees and think '... I don't even want to find it in there !' so I declare it lost and walk to my provisional ball nicely in the middle of the fairway. But, can my playing partner insist on looking for my ball and if he finds it do I have to play it? -- 30/03/2009 10:10:02: post edited by Pete Connon.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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As I understand it, you cannot declare a ball lost. You can decline to search for it but if someone else (this could be anyone, not just your playing partner) does and finds it within the alloted 5 minutes it is the 'ball in play' and you have to play it unless you have already played your provisional ball from a position closer to the hole than where the original is found (at which point the provisional becomes the 'ball in play'.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Hi Colin,
Nice reply but not the reply to Olu's question.
"Would relief that results in playing from the fairway be alowed without a penalty stroke?"
I believe the answer is yes. Do you agree?
Marcel
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Hi Pete,
Yes, you have to play the first ball if someone insists to look for and finds it within 5 min. And I don't agree with Colin's remark "unless you have already played your provisional ball from a position closer to the hole than where the original is found (at which point the provisional becomes the 'ball in play'"
Consider this: It's a par 3. Your ball went to the bushes close to the green. You play a provisional ball and . . . it's a hole-in-one. Are you interested in looking for th first ball? NOOOOOO! Have your playing partners the right to look for it? YEEEEEEES! It's a must. And they have 5 min to find it. The good new: you don't have to help them.
Marcel
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Russell Middlet...
Handicap: 36
Essex
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 387
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Colin is correct about the provisional ball becoming the ball in play. The moment you hit your provisional ball and it is closer to the hole than your original ball then the provision ball is the ball in play. So as an example, you hit your first ball right of the fairway, you spot where it went into the rough. A provisional ball is declared and played. The provisional ball goes straight up the fairway. You walk to the provisional ball and thinking that it's further away from the hole than your first ball you hit the provisional ball towards the green. Then you walk over to the rough to find your ball but cannot find it! With the help of your playing partners you look for your ball. One of your partners finds your first ball but when you look where it is you find that it was further back than your originally thought! You realise that your provisional ball was nearer to the hole than your original ball is now. The only option now is to pick up your first ball and carry on playing with your second ball, adding on the penalty shot. Russ
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Posted by Marcel White on 30 Mar 2009, 14:34
Hi Colin,
Nice reply but not the reply to Olu's question.
"Would relief that results in playing from the fairway be alowed without a penalty stroke?"
I believe the answer is yes. Do you agree?
Marcel The answer could only ever be Yes if the fairway happens to be the nearest point of relief which in my experience is exceedingly unlikely. Oops, there I go again, not directly answering the question...  Marcel, I don't ageree. I hope that answers your question 
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Posted by Marcel White on 30 Mar 2009, 14:58 Hi Pete,
Yes, you have to play the first ball if someone insists to look for and finds it within 5 min. And I don't agree with Colin's remark "unless you have already played your provisional ball from a position closer to the hole than where the original is found (at which point the provisional becomes the 'ball in play'"
Consider this: It's a par 3. Your ball went to the bushes close to the green. You play a provisional ball and . . . it's a hole-in-one. Are you interested in looking for th first ball? NOOOOOO! Have your playing partners the right to look for it? YEEEEEEES! It's a must. And they have 5 min to find it. The good new: you don't have to help them.
Marcel Holing out with a provisional is an interesting anomoly as you can't play a further stroke. There is a Decision on the Rules of Golf the states that that original ball is no longer in play once you've retrieved the provisional from the hole. So, as your opponent runs off to find your original ball you sprint for the hole to retrieve the provisional. This would apply both from the tee on a par 3 and on the fairway where the provisional is further from the hole than the original. -- 30/03/2009 19:13:00: post edited by Colin Stevens.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Well that's my question well and truly answered. Thanks to all.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Posted by Russell Middleton on 30 Mar 2009, 17:05 Colin is correct about the provisional ball becoming the ball in play. The moment you hit your provisional ball and it is closer to the hole than your original ball then the provision ball is the ball in play. So as an example, you hit your first ball right of the fairway, you spot where it went into the rough. A provisional ball is declared and played. The provisional ball goes straight up the fairway. You walk to the provisional ball and thinking that it's further away from the hole than your first ball you hit the provisional ball towards the green. Then you walk over to the rough to find your ball but cannot find it! With the help of your playing partners you look for your ball. One of your partners finds your first ball but when you look where it is you find that it was further back than your originally thought! You realise that your provisional ball was nearer to the hole than your original ball is now. The only option now is to pick up your first ball and carry on playing with your second ball, adding on the penalty shot. Russ Russ, you're 100% correct except that there can be no penalty as you suggest in your last paragraph. This is because as soon as the provisional ball is played it is - because it is nearer the hole - the ball in play. The original ball is immediately 'lost' and the only reason to continue to look for it is to save £3. -- 30/03/2009 20:58:43: post edited by Colin Stevens.
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Russell Middlet...
Handicap: 36
Essex
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 387
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What I mean Colin is that you would have the penalty of being three off the tee. Russ
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TSG
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