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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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I see that The Guy at the top of the leaderboard (NOV) joined TSG as a 28 handicap. He has scored 2 games of Gross 77 & Gross 79 with Stableford points of 58 & 47! He now has a handicap of 15. Now whilst there is no harm done & obviously,(Unless he is the greatest & quickest, improver of all time!!)he joined with a fantasy handicap. Does this leave a question as to whether new members should have to submit at least 3 scores with named markers before they get a TSG handicap? This is after all what we all have to do at our own clubs.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Roly has a fair point with regards H/c's. Could it not be arranged that on joining TSG that a person declares an offical club h/c or registers for a TSG h/c. If registering for a TSG h/c then the first three cards must be entered from posted TSG games and confirmed by another TSG member who attended the same game. Once the three cards have been entered then a TSG h/c is awarded. I do feel that the current way a person can just post scores without confirmation could be open to abuse, especially for entering The TSG open. Handicap conditions for entry to TSG Open :- "Note, a Player’s Handicap maybe a TSG Assigned Handicap (based on a minimum of three scorecards entered into the TSG Handicap Calculation System) OR a handicap issued by a CONGU registered Golf Club." With the current system a person could just make up three scores (as there is no requirement for any confirmation), enter them and give themselves a very healthy h/c for this competition.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Maybe at the very least a TSG member should have to enter several cards (3?) before a score they have entered is considered for the Leaderboard?
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TheSocialGolfer
Handicap: 36
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 782
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Whilst we generally think life is better when you trust people we do accept that sometimes trust can be abused and the offer of prizes may prove too much temptation for the very small minority. So we've tightened up the handicap requirement for the TSG Open Golf Championship to require some validation (which shouldn't be a problem for anyone to achieve between now and april 2010 !).
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Russell Middlet...
Handicap: 36
Essex
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 387
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Having had a think about this I have come up with the following suggestions.
When a person joins this site why not ask them for their present golf club handicap (if they are a member of a golf club), or for them to put in an estimated handicap, based on how they are playing at the time they join.
Nobody should be able to play in a big competition until they have entered five or six scorecards onto the system. It could even be that it is stipulated that three of them have to be marked by another SG member.
Once three scorecards have been entered then the new member can play off the handicap the system sets them.
Russ
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Dan Parker
Handicap: 36
Essex
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 40
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Posted by Russell Middleton on 22 Nov 2009, 17:15
Having had a think about this I have come up with the following suggestions.
When a person joins this site why not ask them for their present golf club handicap (if they are a member of a golf club), or for them to put in an estimated handicap, based on how they are playing at the time they join.
Nobody should be able to play in a big competition until they have entered five or six scorecards onto the system. It could even be that it is stipulated that three of them have to be marked by another SG member.
Once three scorecards have been entered then the new member can play off the handicap the system sets them.
Russ Totally agree with this but could we also have a section where maybe an active member can tick (or something) to approve this obviously if they play in the game just an idea.
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TheSocialGolfer
Handicap: 36
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 782
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When a new member joins TSG they step through a few pages allowing them to build their profile. One of the questions is current handicap (with a system default).
When a member enters scores into the 'My Scores' section they are offered the option of using the score to maintain their handicap (a check-box on the score entry screen) in which case that score would then be seen in the 'My Handicap' section and the score shown on the TSG Downloadable Free Handicap Certificate.
A player's handicap only really matters when playing for money or prizes. If you are playing someone you don't know for money and accepting their handicap, well you are very trusting.
The TSG Competitions are fun competitions but they do have prizes and whilst we want everyone to get involved and enjoy the day we want someone who has had a great day, played above themselves (and probably had a bit of luck) to walk off with the top prizes not someone who plays okay but has manipulated their handicap to give themselves a head start.
So, it's a balance between making it easy for members to join but imposing some checks and balances. The way we've done that is by insisting that, for those without a club handicap, scores are entered to the TSG System with at least one of them being carded in a TSG 'Open Invite' game (ie not just someone entering a score and saying, I played on my own and scored 106 giving me a 28 handicap!). Also we'll be playing off 3/4 handicap to level the playing field further. Finally, lets not forget that we're accepting club handicaps which we all know can be as manipulated as any other.
All in all we want people to be honest with entering a few scores to prove their handicap (you may be surprised with what handicap you get) and then we want everyone to enjoy the day and the competition.
Should we impose a requirement for more cards like Russell & Dan suggest?
Or has anyone got any other ideas for making sure the handicaps are fair? -- 23/11/2009 10:39:29: post edited by TheSocialGolfer.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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I Feel that there should be some further restriction then just The Three Card rule. Russell's suggestion of further cards does make sense, Roly's first entry for this posting shows that it can be abused. Someone who shoots gross scores of 77 and 79, is obviously a very good player (most likely single figure h/c) so why join, declare no h/c and start off 28 ? even a third card of say 78 would only adjust the h/c down something like 13, and not the 8 or 9 that would be nearer the true playing standard. so even with a 3/4 adjustment for the competition the person would still be playing off 10. At a club, you have to play three rounds with a member and usually one of these rounds has to be from a club comp, before you are given your first h/c. Yes you do get some players at a club who can play better then their h/c suggest, but this is usually after they have been there for a while, they don't play in as many club comps, just the required 6 or so to maintain their h/c, and they don't bother handing in cards from social rounds played with friends. Due to the prizes on offer in the TSG Open, to have a condition that someone who is going to use the TSG h/c must first play three posted games before getting their first h/c and then another three games either which they have posted (but played with another TSG member)or joined does make sense. Another suggestion would be to not allow rounds that cannot be confirmed be used for H/c adjustment, to be able to use a score for h/c it most be from a posted game that at least one other TSG member has attended. Just for information, if a person is playing to their h/c they should not be running up scores in the 40's on a regular basis or even 38's and 39's, but around the 32-34 mark. -- 23/11/2009 12:31:46: post edited by mark rowley.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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sorry about previous post, have not worked out yet how to break it up into paragraghs like Russell and TSG :(
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Ian Mullins
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 378
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Yes, I noticed this one appear too!
Hmmm.....not sure I agree we need to start imposing quite such strict rulings on everyone, we dont want to put people off joining the site and the reason I am here and not a member of a club, is exactly to avoid overly zealous rules.
I agree with Pete on this one - you dont get a handicap until your submitted three cards on the site AND you dont get onto the leaderboard until youve entered 3 cards either.
Simples!
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,955
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Ian, no one is suggesting "overly zealous" rules, I assume the main reason you joined this site was to play golf, I'm a member of a club but play more golf via TSG. The reason this discussion has come about is mainly due to The TSG Open, with the prizes on offer, sadly you will have some people who will join and abuse the handicap system to give themselves an advantage. A person who shots 77 and 79 has not just taken up the game, they can play, they also know they are better then a 28 h/c. as I pointed out with the previous conditions for h/c and entry to the TSG open, They could of posted another score of 78, this would be +7 for the course already used, off current 15 h/c a net 63, making net -8 for the round, a 15 h/c I think that would be a .3 per shot adjustment, so a total reduction of 2.4, this would give a new playing h/c of 12.6 (+13). If the same three cards had been entered at a club for awarding of h/c the person would of most likely started on +7. Handicaps have nothing to do with over zealous rules, it is to allow a fair and level playing field so golfers of all standards can compete against each other. -- 23/11/2009 15:30:42: post edited by mark rowley.
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Roger Akerman
Handicap: 13
East Sussex
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 118
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I agree with Mark on this one That Handicaps are there to make it a level playing field, that is what is so great about the game of golf I cannot think of another sport that operates such a system that give everyone a chance of winning no matter how good or bad you are. We must have some rules though that stop people abusing the system, that is why I feel that A minimum of three Cards should be entered and duly signed by another TSG member and that this should be a minimum requirement to obtain a TSG handicap certificate
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TSG
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