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Do We Think TSG Should outlaw some courses from the Leaderboard ??? Options
#1 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 4:37:57 PM
Handicap: 17
Essex

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 55
A little bird told me this is being considered by the powers that be at TSG headquarters
and today talking it through with a group of TSGers we thought the wider TSG
Community should be asked about such a move.

It seems that if a course is deemed to easy then scores from that course will not be
counted on the leaderboard ??

what do you think ? all points of view welcome
#2 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 5:21:47 PM
Handicap: 18
Bedfordshire
Pro Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 117
 If the EGU have given any club an official SSS then it does not matter what number a player submits as a Stableford score, because it is done under EGU direction.

Epping looks a prime example for a 'too easy' designation, but if that is so why did I only score 34 points? I may not have scored well, but I was happy with my game.

'Too easy' is only in the eye of those looking in from the outside, just because you have a couple of stunning scores on a course, does NOT mean that the course is too easy.

I would also say that if a course was put on the list banning it from the leaderboard, people would stop playing there and then couldn't the course have a case against TSG for damaging their business??

t the root of this is the problem of 'bandits' - I have had my bleat about it before, but banning scores from particular courses is not the way to go. And if those that complain about certain courses having high scores entered want to rectify the matter, it's easy -

  • Play the course yourself and get a low score yourself!

No offence to anyone, but banning is not a good idea at all.

John



#3 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 8:22:57 PM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
The only problem you have got, lets take Epping as the example a friend of mine ( Yes rob I count you as a friend ) he scored 47 points at epping last month, he was a 28 Handicapper but only got cut I think was 2 shots because the SSS is low for that course.
If you happen to play courses that have low SSS in my opinion your handicap should be cut the full amount, This is my opinion.
Surely what would be fair is actually manually adjusting the score by taking the SSS shots away from the score, I hope you know what I mean.
#4 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 9:16:16 PM
Handicap: 20
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 36

I agree with John and think he has it right

'Too easy' is only in the eye of those looking in from the outside, just because you have a couple of stunning scores on a course, does NOT mean that the course is too easy.


 With regard to the problem of 'bandits' - You put your score in accordingly and will be cut and eventually you will recieve the correct handicap whever you play.  but banning scores from particular courses is not the way to go. And if those that complain about certain courses having high scores entered want to rectify the matter, it's easy -

  • Play the course yourself and get a low score yourself!

No offence to anyone, but banning is not a good idea at all.
#5 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 10:00:12 PM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
I agree DJ dont ban the courses just adjust score according with the SSS, Its as easy as that
#6 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 11:11:10 PM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
 What a great topic for a change,well done Chris this could liven up the forum for some very interesting reading.
I have read all the points of veiw and have to agree banning any course from a leader board is not the answer.
I have never played Epping Forest G.C. so cant comment on it being easy or hard.
I have however just played the Priors at Stableford Abbotts G.C. some say thats an easy course,it is when there is no wind blowing across the course,a bit of a breeze and I challenge anyone to beat their H/c there.
Some regular guys I play with comment on Woolston Manor being a tough course with all the bunkers,the truth is if you end up in one ask yourself why you where in it in the first place,no one has said it should be taken off the LEADER BOARD becuase its too HARD.
No matter what course you play or how you score,everyone has a difference of oppinion of it.
This comes back to the same old arguments about Bandits and so forth.so long as you put in an honest card the H/c system set out by CONGU works for everyone and once you have entered a few cards you will know what your true H/C is.
New members starting off 28 H/c and going top of the leader board are now being monitored by the TSG team.
That is the same for me,I added 4 shots to my H/c this year because of injury, I was top of the Leader board for a few hours today but was beaten.My round over the PRIORS saw me loose a shot off my H/c now 11 
My target is to get back to single figures again regardless of what courses I play,it only proved one thing playing off 12H/C AND SCORING 42PTS means I am better than that.
Its great feeling knowing I am going in the right direction,if we where all honest enough to admitt it we all wish our H/c where lower.Its what you are prepared to do to reduce it,and to take a step back when someone hits a good stableford score. 
IT MIGHT BE YOU NEXT TIME. TOP OF THE LEADER BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
great post this one again well done Chris.E.
Jack
#7 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 11:29:24 PM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
  I have a question for you why do all low handicappers want to do 3/4 handicap when they are playing high handicappers ?
#8 Posted : Saturday, January 7, 2012 11:39:41 PM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
What do you mean by a low h/c Darren?
Jack 
#9 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 9:33:11 AM
Handicap: 0
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 572
Thanks for posting this thread Chris, you beat me to it!

Keep coming with all the views as this is an important debate and one that we would like all TSG members to join in with......

Regards, new joiners, we'll be announcing new rules on their entry into the monthly table later this week.

Ian
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:01:47 AM
Handicap: 26
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 89
 I've only been playing just over a year, so please excuse me if I've missed something here,however, for what it's worth my limited opinion is:

The leader board should somehow link to the relevant SSS, which would cut the points in the same format as the handicap system does e.g the past 2 weeks I've had a round of 94, (not sure how?) scoring 41 & 40 points. The 94 for 41 was at Langdon hills with a SSS of 67 and my handicap was cut by 0.4, yesterday my round at Risebridge was 94 for 40 SSS of 71 which saw my handicap cut by a further 1.6!

Another point here is, personally I know myself that the first 9 at Langdon is a lot easier than the first 9 at Risebridge, so I give more personal value to yesterday's 94 than the week before. So unless you can regularly score similar strokes/ points at all courses your perhaps fooling only yourself by playing what may be deemed an easier (I dont think any course is easy) course.

I also thought the leader board was just for fun, with Ian kindly donating a T-shirt to the "winner" each month, but as I said at the beginning maybe I'm missing something?
#11 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:16:59 AM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
Message was deleted by User.
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 11:17:21 AM
Handicap: 18
Surrey
Pro Member

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 56
 Would it be possible to construct the leaderboard such that it reports off of 3/4 handicaps?  That would tend to even things out, and we'd no longer see >25 handicaps at the top of the board month after month.

#13 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 1:31:54 PM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
David Pipe wrote:
 Would it be possible to construct the leaderboard such that it reports off of 3/4 handicaps?  That would tend to even things out, and we'd no longer see >25 handicaps at the top of the board month after month.


Surely just go by the SSS and that will even it out ?
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 1:33:51 PM
Handicap: 28
Kent

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,409
103 Views and only 13 replys
#15 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 3:27:58 PM
Handicap: 21
Hertfordshire
Pro Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 8
If you reduced handicaps by 25% across the board , then I do not see how the leader board would change very much, although admittedly it will change. However if a 25 handicapper is at the top of the board month after month , then it stands to reason that the said players are being cut each month and therefore will no longer be top of the leader board , hence given them harder targets to achieve in future months.   

If anyone has a concern with the SSS of a course, then I think their first port of call is the relevent ruling body. It is not our place to decide how easy or hard a course may or may not be, or do we start making adjustments for 'local knowledge' after all some people play the same few courses week in and week out and only submit  a card when it suites them . 
#16 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 6:52:47 PM
Handicap: 19
essex
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 38
A very good thread this.Some interesting posts all with very good points.Being part of the group that tends play here a bit and "sometimes"scoring well I can see peoples complaints. But as previously commented it should even out if regular cards are put in.However the course is very short and if you are on your game you will tend to score well. The 3/4 thing for me doesn't work. If you are scoring well all the time at the same course, as I said before the handicap system will bring your handicap down to a level that suits the course, you will notice the difference should you play elsewhere.As I have suggested to some of the guys, play off the back tees and see the difference.
#17 Posted : Sunday, January 8, 2012 10:37:44 PM
Handicap: 18
Essex
Pro Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 132
The reason for this becoming an issue is undoubtedly Epping GC - 5 out of the top 10 on the leader board, being there by virtue of having played this course.
Epping GC claim a course length of 5,400yds, but this is off the white tees. As a former member, I know that during the winter months, all tees are deliberately moved forward, frequently many yards in front of the regular ladies tees. It is possible in fact, to drive some of the par 4 greens. This makes a complete mockery of the SSS rating and for that very reason, I believe that this course should not be considered for the leader board standings. On such a course, it is far easier for a 28 handicapper to score 7 or 8 under their handicap than it is for a 10 handicapper to do the same.
The comment that the course could hold the TGS to account does not hold water, as the  course is not as described on their scorecards or their own website. 
There are some members who take the leader board very seriously, evidenced by the fact that we are discusing this in the first place. Each to his own. Well that's my four penn'orth. 
#18 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2012 1:04:54 PM
Handicap: 19
Essex

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20
In my opinion banning courses from the leaderboard is the wrong way to go. As is the idea of 3/4 handicaps.
Can a leaderboard system incorporating both Stableford points and score against par be used. For example a golfer scores 42 points playing a course that has a SSS of 67 against a par of 70....still with me?
Said golfer is 6 under his or her handicap based on stapleford points, but subtract from that the 3 shots the SSS is lower than par so this golfers score for our leaderboards sake would be 3 under Par.
This would also work at "harder" courses where the SSS is higher than par.

As for 3/4 handicaps, speaking from personal experience, I play off of 24 because I'm not very good (which those that have played with me will testify to!). Cutting this to 3/4 moves the goalposts to suit a small group just the same as banning or not banning a particular course does.
#19 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2012 1:06:44 PM
Handicap: 19
Essex

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 20

By the way I'm copywriting that leaderboard idea.....I'll expect royalties if implemented

#20 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2012 4:21:32 PM
Handicap: 17
Essex

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 55
Banning  is the thin end of the wedge! Whats next "only off the white tees"! or "only in competition"! or "not under winter rules"! i thought that the TSG was about social golf haveing a round of golf and a bit of a laugh
with a few golfing buddies?? or am i wrong?
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