Golf Forums - Golf Rules - what should be changed?

The January TSG News included an item about R&A Rule changes for 2012.   The revision process is ongoing, with views of many ordinary golfers taken into consideration - golfers like 'us', perhaps...? 

What do TSGers think......which rules don't seem fair at times?   What should be changed?

Every week, Sky TV show golf played on manicured courses around the world, where players always have a perfect lie on fairways and in bunkers.   A good lie makes any shot easier to play, but how annoying is it when your ball is in a bunker that hasn't been raked?   It's almost impossible to play a good shot from a size-10 Footjoy print of a player from an earlier group, so wouldn't it be fair and sensible to allow us to lift the ball, rake the sand and replace the ball in the same position?   We'd then have a chance to play a shot like we see on TV......without an unfair disadvantage caused by lack of regard for the etiquette of the game. 

Flooded bunkers......that's another one, but I don't want to 'rant'.....!!!

 I will have a rant,John!!!!!!!!! what about if you hit your SUNDAY BEST drive up the middle of the fairway,it comes to rest in a divot that has not been repaired.

Surley a new ruling could be made to overcome both these situations.
This is a good one for a starter.
Jack

I agree, Jack - if an earlier player hasn't bothered to repair their damage, why should someone else suffer?

On the European & PGA Tours, bunkers and divots are repaired immediately, so I think we should all be allowed to play under similar conditions to the pro's.   The game's difficult enough without having to contend with unfair lies!

Hi John,

I totally agree with both of these suggestions.....what happens now though?

Do we all need to sign a petition or go on a march?

Lemme know!

Ian M

I can see the headline now......'TSG boss leads march to St Andrews'......certainly a way of raising profile, but possibly not  the image to portray!

I would be prepared to write a letter to The R&A Rules Committee asking if they would consider these suggestions.   Any response would be very interesting but, obviously, the argument would carry more weight with more names behind it.

'Play the ball as it lies, play the course as you find it, and if you cannot do either, do what is fair.....' is the statement at the front of the Rulebook.   BUT, in the etiquette section (p20), it reads that bunkers and divots should be 'carefully repaired'.   Surely it is not 'fair', then, to have to play from a lie that has not been repaired?

Any more opinions? 

 I totally agree that something has to be done in both these case' as it would appear that more and more so called golfers fail to do eithe,r and I am afraid that it is now becoming the norm,
Prehaps if more course's had marshalls on them it might help to improve the situation But this would also increase the cost if a round,would you be willing to pay a bit extra to have a marshall on course's? to make sure players replaced thier divots and raked the bunkers

I'm also in complete agreement with both these proposals. Provided the stance is not improved in any way. Agreement should be sought with playing partners, where a ball in a bunker has plugged - in a footprint or rabbit scrape etc. Should the sand be raked and the ball replaced then pushed into the sand with the same degree of 'plug'. I think so.

Ian, is it not possible to make a social golfer 'rule' just as in 'local rules under' the rules of golf. simply as has been stated as unfair, that ball to be placed withing 6 inches of the divot the ball was in for instance,,, and siply allowed to rake and place in a poor bunker sir?
and to be honest, if players in a group choose to stick to the standard rule, it is simply a choice and no one is affected.

Andy, I don't think TheSocialGolfer can get involved in making its 'own' local rules as we play so many different courses in varying conditions, but it's probably a good idea to have an 'agreement' with playing partners to lift, rake & replace a ball that's in a bad lie left by a previous player.  Or, treat a footprint as an 'animal scrape'?

Some courses do partially address the problem by having a 'Preferred Lies all year' rule, but if we start changing rules, we may find our handicaps not accepted.....and who needs another h/c discussion?!!

It's a nice idea to have an agreement with the people you are playing with to be allowed to rake bunkers left in a mess by inconsiderate players. Nice to have a 'pick and place' all year round with those same players. BUT what do you do when you turn up for a competition, may be club, may be an open game, you will not be allowed to get that agreement as it is not in the R&A rule book. You are then at an immediate disadvantage to all the other non-TSG players who as a matter of course play out of footprints and divots.

Maybe you never play in these sorts of games, but many of us do. It is unfortunate to land in these areas, but it is not as though you land in one on every shot. A footprint in a bunker is a pain in the ar*e, but the bunker is a hazard that you were really trying to avoid (unlike the pro's who sometimes use the bunker as the lesser of two evils). Landing on an unrepaired divot is a pain, but not something you find you've done or do on every fairway.

I know this makes me at odds with the rest of the posters on this thread, but I think we should grin and bear it. As it is, unfortunately, what would be classed 'rub of the green'. As long as we all rake the bunkers, even the areas of the bunker you actually did not use but has marks, and repair divots that you make to the best of your ability, there is always the chance one of the ingrates that normally can't be bothered will see and do the same (or I can keep dreaming!).

John

Hmmm...I'm inclined to agree with Andy on this one........I for one would have no issue with any TSGers dropping a ball from a divot (rather than just placing!)  and I think given we are all about 'social golf rather than competitive, it would sit well with me!

But John makes an equally fair point, that this would not count in competition though!

I am not so sure about the bunkers issue though as this could be abused without a specific R&A ruling!

However, I think we should petition the R&A (!!) maybe we could post a 'vote' now thread and send this into the powers that be.....

Whatdayathink?

Ian

Tend to agree Ian, but the purists among us would never accept the ruling. It has been part and parcel of the game since inception, and the 'rub of ther green' will always prevail.  It's one of the quirks of golf that make it the game it is....unforgiving, demanding honesty and integrity...all good old British values - gulp!

I agree too, "the rub of the green will always prevail.

Have to agree that 'rub of the green' should prevail and it is unfortunate when landing in an unrepaired divot, or an unraked bunker. I don't see enough signs on quite a few golf courses but it is a simple thing to replace divots, fix pitch marks and rake bunkers.

I'd go the route of making it a point that TSG'rs always repair, replace and fix more divots that we make, and always take the time to rake the bunkers. Nice thing is though that many of the bunkers we see, often with lip service to having sand, are equally as difficult for the Pro's to escape from (as they never see them in the condition we do).

I think that play it as it lies and play as you find it are basic tenets and it does make the game more of a challenge... I would think that leading by example is the way to go... never let it be said that we leave a course in worse condition than we find it through any lack of care and attention to repairing... make one pitch mark, repair two... and everything should get better...

I have heard the same thoughts about divots and pitchmarks from TV coverage and old pros - so it is not something unknown to the R&A.  

 Me again,,, sorry but my argument remains about bunkers. If a rabbit or fox digs a bit of a bunker, under the rules you get a drop into a raked area of bunker. I see a golfer with no thought for others leaving a similar poor lie as being acceptable to play from as against the ethos of the game, otherwise why bother raking bunkers at all.